Welcome to my corner of the web. Here you'll find my ramblings about faith, church, drupal, Geeks and God (my podcast), and my other unrelated interests.

While you can subscribe to all posts here from the Subscribe link on the right, there are two other main feeds. There is the drupal and other technology feed along with the faith and church feed.

Building Church Communities

Posted on: Thu, 2009-09-03 12:29 | By: matt | In:

Have you noticed that many churches aren't really communities? Some claim to be communities and a handful actually are. But, many churches are actually organizations that look more like a business with a congregation consuming services and products put out by the church staff and a handful of active volunteers. This is a problem happening at my church and something many of the churches leaders would like to change.

But, It's Not A Problem At My Church!

97% of church growth in America is someone moving from one church to another. This is usually happening because the church they switch to has a cooler worship service, is more fun, or there are more activities for their kids. Doesn't this sound like products and services being consumed. This feels like computer users switching from a PC to Mac because it's cooler and slicker.

When you live in community you don't want to switch. If you are in a community of friends do you just get rid of them and take on new friends because someone else is cooler? I sure hope not. If you do you are likely labeled as someone whose using others. This kind of thing is not a trait people like to see for good reason.

So, when it shows up in our churches it's really a sign that the church isn't a community. When it's not talked about it even shows that community isn't all that important.

No, Really. It's Not Happening In My Church

When I was recently talking to someone active in my church she said there wasn't a problem in our church. That she didn't see it. The problem is, she is one of the active people producing the products and services others consume.

If you are one of the top 10% of active church volunteers or a leader in the church you don't have the same perspective as someone in the congregation at large. You might not even notice this trend and you might be living in genuine community with the other people doing the same thing as you. But, that doesn't mean your church is a community. A church congregation is all of it's members, not a handful.

Community Is Dead. Long Live Community!

In the United States (I can't speak for everywhere) community is a dying thing. We yearn for it and online social communities are popping up in batches. Yet, studies show that people have less real friends than people used to have. More studies show people (in general) are more depressed and disconnected. In a time when our communication tools continue to improve our ability to live in community is diminishing.

That means building a church community is going to be counter cultural.

Does It Actually Matter

This is a loaded question. Some might answer that is doesn't actually matter to them. I think of this question in a different way. Does it actually matter to God? The answer to this is a definite yes. Reading through scripture this is very clear. Look at 1 Corinthians and how God made us the body of Christ. Different people with different skills and gifts working together for the missing of the church. This is a community with a mission.

The Path Ahead

I'm not sure what the path ahead holds for the local church I belong to. This is really just the starting point as we discover our identity and what it means to be a community or not. Just like so many other things, we could fail.

As I continue to work in the churches community I'll blog some of the things I see, things that work and don't, and ideas we have.

Any Ideas

Since the church at large isn't very good at living in community there aren't a lot of good resources at doing this. Some of what's out there is trying to manage (in the business sense) community. This just doesn't work. Some other things talk about radical change. That usually kills a community. So, I'm looking for ideas. Ways to convince people to change. Ways to change the culture. Ideas on what the culture should look like. And, anything else constructive for that matter. So, if you have any ideas I'd love to see them.

Comments

#1 Helping the community creates community

One thing my church has done the past couple years is to spend a whole day doing maintenance and grounds improvement work at two local high schools. It started as a senior project for a couple kids from the two schools and has turned into an annual thing. A couple hundred people from our church spend a Saturday at the schools cleaning up, repairing, and improving the buildings and grounds at the two schools (you can see pictures here).

This may not be what you're looking for, but to my mind, you create a greater connection to people in your church when you all work together towards a common goal. I've gone on two short term mission trips to Asia and Mexico over the past two years, and forged some very strong relationships with the people I went with, because we were working towards a common goal. I think this applies not only to missions teams, but also to anybody working together.

#2 I like it

First, I love the idea of serving together as a catalyst that grows community. Serving is something the church is supposed to do. And, I really do believe that you grow closer to the people you serve with.

I, also, love the photo slide show. It puts real faces to the event. I imagine that helps people connect to the effort and want to join in the next time it happens. Photos are great.

Thanks for the good though.

#3 Working on the same thing

Sounds like we're in the same place. I'm amazed how many people in the church we regularly attend at the top don't notice. I hear things like "We're a friendly church" or "We do a great job of helping others" and then I hear "In order to be a part of the church you need to get involved". I've been at this church for two years and I can count on one hand the number of times I've been encouraged to go to some "men's ministry" event personally. I don't even need that hand to count the number of people who I'd feel safe sharing a struggle with, though a few are developing some connections. I have been asked to serve a role in ministry far more often than I've been asked to hang out with people. Ultimately, in order for me to be worthy of building relationships with people, I must first serve a purpose to the community. (Sounds a bit like the open source world; something we shouldn't be emulating.)

It seems like the church is a bunch of small communities that don't interact more than needed to serve the purpose of a corporate Sunday gathering. Some in leadership see the need, but many don't. Mostly the ones who do are relatively new to the church and had the same struggle getting in.

Anyway, what my wife and I have begun doing is getting to know people from different groups. Then trying to help those people get to know each other. A lot of this ends up being the like-minded people getting to know the other people with a vision to reach out and connect the groups, but others get caught into it also. My wife is naturally and spiritually gifted at this sort of thing. I struggle to do it well, but am happy to support her.

A couple weeks back we were invited to two birthday parties on the same day. They were held right down the road from each other and only about 1/2 hr apart. Both were of significant size and with strong connection to the church, but only two couples (us and another couple who had been at the church less than a year who also moved into the area) were at both parties.

Ultimately, I think this is total heart and culture change. The culture must care about people more than products (err, I mean programs) and that happens when the individuals care about others first. So the folks in the church must be catalyzed towards less selfishness and recognize that folks around them are hurting and struggling. A huge portion of the people in the church have marriage concerns, others are dealing with children that just won't give them a moments rest, then others have in-laws at their heals or perhaps creditors, another group isn't sure they really buy this Jesus thing but don't know what else to do or just want to teach morality to their kids. Each of these people with these struggles are ones not looking past their own hurt to help someone else with their hurt and losing an opportunity for the church to look more like a hospital than a shopping mall.

While I am concerned about certain mystical influences, I think Dallas Willard has a ton of good things to say on this topic. The ongoing restoration of the heart of man after salvation isn't often discussed. We recently went through a bible study of his in a Sunday School class called "Renovation of the Heart". We must learn to chase after and put on the character of Christ in all our ways or we end up serving ourselves and ultimately serving Evil especially in the context of the church.

While that study was good, I think a major part of it is that people catch this stuff a lot faster than they learn it. They need to see it in action. We've done some of this by inviting a new couple to church to a meal and having another couple who we know come along also. The church has to stop serving inward and start looking to serve outward some more also. How can the church become servants to the community and progress the communities interests? I was just thinking last night how awesome it would be if the church would equip and host a hackspace for our area and invite geeks of all kinds to come in, host drupal groups and linux groups and ruby groups and maybe even gaming groups in our facilities and encourage church members to become involved in the community. Why shouldn't the church be a community center? Why shouldn't the church website be the place where the community comes to find out what's going on?

I'm starting to get off on a rabbit trail so I'll stop... :-)

#4 Great observation

Bob Christenson used to point out how disconnected people are. He recently deleted his facebook account and stopped using twitter. He hopes to connect with people more in person. In real life. This whole thing is something that seems to be lost. That personal touch.

You noticed how you're invited into ministry activities but people don't take the time to get to know you. Do you ever feel like a resource for the church to use rather than a member of a community? I know I do. I know others who think and feel the same way.

Maybe a general principle should be to put people first. That idea was really carried out in a small group I used to belong to. The idea was simple. The first hour we caught up and dug into each others lives. We opened up and shared. Then, after that studied the bible. It was about caring for others before we jumped into the task at hand.

This makes me wonder how we can foster fellowship in church more. Maybe it's to stop using the word fellowship and instead use words that people know. Words like friendship and intimacy. Fellowship sometimes gets thrown aside as another church work. People know what friendship and intimacy are.

Thanks for the thoughts, Josiah.

#5 Totally

I'm totally a tool. I almost wonder if church leadership salivates when they see a ministry minded, bible college trained local missionary with apparent lack of involvement. When I was looking for a mission to serve with, mission recruiters were very interested in my skills. Even outside of skills, I've had the feeling when leaving a place that I was a number being lost.

I've come to grips with being a tool in some circumstances. I'm very comfortable with the idea that God designed me for a purpose and filling that purpose brings me great pleasure, but in the context of the church I desperately want to serve alongside friends who are united in a collective goal, but feel deeply that this goal is missing something when I'm not around and I want to feel like something is missing when they aren't around. In other words, I want to be part of a body, not just a machine full of redundant parts.

#6 Doing Less

I think that the lack of real community at most churches is a symptom of busyness, the US culture encourages pushing our schedule to the max and churches have hopped onto that bandwagon. Between work and church activities there is hardly time left for family much less building and encouraging friendships.

Having spent some time in Egypt and Kenya, I've seen cultures where social relationships are a priority. People make the time to stop by and chat with their friends and family on an almost daily basis. I feel that this may be closer to how the New Testament church ran, church life was simple and the people gathered at each others home to encourage and strengthen each other. They weren't caught up in programs and activities that leave little room for social interaction.

Not to say that all programs and activities are bad, but maybe we should start considering how much the church schedule puts a demand on it's community and maybe reduce those expectations a bit while encouraging real relationships. Tim Stevens wrote a great post on excessive expectations that got me thinking along those lines: http://www.leadingsmart.com/leadingsmart/2009/06/hey-churchtheyre-just-n...

Maybe one of those "spiritual outcomes" that Tim mentions is real community!

#7 Work-a-holic churches

Andrew, I see what you're saying. American culture has a bit of work-a-holicism to it. OK, maybe more than a bit of it. Makes sense that this would pour into things like the church.

How many pastors work are so busy working on stuff at church that they don't have time for coffee or bbqing with people? I could make a list of ones I know.

This is a great observation but hard to implement.

Love the link you shared. Reading the list in the post made me feel inadequate. I felt like there was more I should be doing. I wonder how many others push themselves trying to kill that feeling?

#8 Turning down an opportunity can be healthy

I've seen turning down something to be healthy. I've heard more than a few times, well if you don't do it this just won't happen. Sometimes I think that's exactly what God wants. If you can't staff it, it shouldn't happen and if you can only staff it by guilting people into it, then it shouldn't happen. Step back and try to figure out why the church members don't value what's happening enough to be involved.

The other side of that is, don't be afraid to say no. I think it's the healthiest thing for people in many scenarios and also healthy for the church. The church can exist for God's purpose without a nursery, sunday school or teen program.

#9 Change the environment, and change the point.

I think the best way to try to tackle this kind of thing, from my own experience... is just stop going to a Sunday oriented, or large group corporate setting altogether for a few years.

The kinds of people who will be able to partake and contribute to pervasive community aren't going to things that aren't that for the most part. Having been a part of, and seen others trying to plant churches, it's really a question of reproduction. We reproduce what we invest our time and talent in, and it tends to reproduce after its own kind.

Break out of it altogether. Go and be church simply, amongst people who don't want to gather for worship and you'll be forced to ask new, better questions about expressing faith together you can often only see as hypotheticals. Invite people to live with you, or sell things and move in with people. Share meals regularly that don't end up looking like bible studies or sunday church in a smaller setting. Adopt a local boys/girls sports team and just show up to encourage them. The list of ways to do things goes on and on, but doing has to flow out of what we're being and who we're becoming.

And honestly, be prepared to let things die over and over. We as a western culture cling to corpses out of misplaced pride and selfish comfort. Death brings new life, and healthy communities progress through seasons just like crops. When they are dying, it's best to acknowledge it, celebrate what God has done and move on instead of clinging to a corpse.

#10 How Do You Lead Others?

Jason, you make an interesting take on this. I know people who think and are doing exactly what you say. For some, that's a path. But, some are meant to lead others to something different.

I remember how God does things. He doesn't give people more than they can handled. With the Israelites back in Moses time he gave them the laws. They weren't fully Gods plan but they were what they could handled. When Jesus came he gave us more and challenged us more. God and his people over time have lead others with what God has given us.

For those of us looking and trying to lead others going off and doing something like this will abandon them instead of helping and serving them. This is a struggle. For me, God has made it clear. I imagine its different for others.

#11 Leading others...

Here's the main deal from my experience and the experience of others I've worked with over the last seven or eight years: if God calls you to shepherd a group or community, you stay with them. If he calls you to begin a new work, it must begin with new life and new faith.

You seem called to shepherd a group from your post, and this means that you are going to be seeing the change in faith culture incredibly slowly, at a pace which will lag far behind your personal desire. Jesus was in the same boat to be fair, he kept trying to entice and challenge Israel until it flat out rejected him. And his response to that rejection was to ride humbly into a town on a donkey to await his execution on their behalf. The call to shepherd is a call to die, in a very Christlike and meaningful way. If you haven't read "The Challenge of Jesus" I'd consider it... only when the people of faith who see the Kingdom choose to sacrifice in lavish, selfless love do others begin to see it too. A shepherd lays down his life for his flock, he doesn't strike them in anger.

Leading others (which I've done for half the time I've been out on the weird of the stick) is a painstaking process that begins with the leader. Grasp right now, that nearly any hierarchically structures church background has taught you and those you lead some crippling lessons that will be painful to undo:

  • People don't expect God to speak to them. They expect leaders to speak for God to them.
  • People expect to be told what to do, to have someone challenge their souls, someone who isn't Christ.
  • If payment for ministry is involved, many will never mentally get over your "job" to provide spiritual goods and services to them.
  • Leaders have been taught to enable these behaviors.
  • Almost the entire focus of community life is on large group gatherings that help people "feel" spiritual.
  • The intellectual, educational approach to faith predominates and creates a host of problems for helping people come to maturity.
  • Most people of faith have learned to hide their problems, won't confess and repent to each other and act as though their comfort is a sign of blessing.
  • Most care more about truth than love.

There's hope though. As you demonstrate sacrificial shepherding while also ceasing to enable the immature behaviors it will slowly force the unmistakable tension of reality to be dealt with. Learn to ask better questions (Jesus w/ the woman at the well is an awesome example of that practice), and to never give answers except on rare occasions to the few in the group you personally live a life of discipleship with. I spent a straight year in a small community refusing to direct, speak wisdom, lead prayer, organize, etc... and it was about God humbling me to the reality of what I thought I was supposed to do vs. what he was asking me to do.

Here's the kicker though, from my reading and own experience. If you want to truly make this slow change with an established group, you need to still get that new life and blood. Which means you need to work closely with someone who has that apostolic bent to go begin a new work, that can "transfuse" life. I know some churches have experimented with this out in the Southwest with some success so far. It also means helping the people, as the recognize the issues they face, also learn to mourn the place they find themselves in and celebrate the great things God has done. Mourning is a lost art, and older congregations especially need to come to terms with the sorrow they feel about a world that has moved beyond them. Maybe you are the apostolic guy who needs to find someone within the community to shepherd it while you bring new blood to the faith?

And some groups... won't make the transition. And some aren't meant to... for those, they have the opportunity to acknowledge that the body is diverse and that the Spirit seems to be up to something new that they can't grasp yet, and work on leaving a legacy of faith and love to their community. I've read great stories of elderly congregations just selling their church building to the local community as a tutoring/community center, and becoming more or less adoptive parents/grandparents to children in the community. Teaching them life skills, and just loving them without it being a radical alteration of their lifestyle. God is great in those things too. Models and new ideas come and go... but love is eternal.

I'll stop here, before this becomes a book of my own experience and thoughts!

#12 Good stuff

Could you talk more about the relationship between the Apostle and the Shepherd in your "Here's the kicker" paragraph?

#13 Their relationship

I could go into this a lot more but really the best sources for this kind of stuff is Alan Hirsch, Michael Frost and Neil Cole. http://www.theforgottenways.org/ has much good information, and most of this gets discussed in the APEST section. It's all good information, but their conception of what a gift is (a person, not an ability), it's purpose (for blessing others, not for personal growth), and its nature (transient, spirit gifted and malleable, not permanent personality trait) are all worthwhile considerations. I think they hit the mark pretty much across the board. The book The Forgotten Ways was where I started a lot of this conversation myself. Good authors on the apostolic side are those three guys I mentioned above. A GREAT author and guy on the end of communities who aren't on this bent, or are more traditional, etc... is Reggie McNeal.

I know one of the fellows who works with Neil Cole in their organic church leadership pastors a community that is "transfusing" in collaboration with a new community.

Briefly: it's mostly terms from the Ephesians description of some church leaders. Apostles begin new works, awaken new dreams and bring new expression to ancient faith. Shepherd care and tend for people within communities of faith, but generally aren't the "creators" of it. They maintain and work alongside the others. It forces a more "regional" or non-congregational focus of leadership and guiding community. But apostolic genius in guiding new growth to become a natural expression of faith instead of a recapitulation of the same thing. Apostles make disciples, and foster the community of faith that they allow to grow up as a natural outgrowth of those disciples. They don't create it, impose it, or act as the "driver". They imprint people on Christ's leadership and do their best to get out of the way quickly so they don't become priests.

Shepherds in healthy communities seem to come from within it, and aren't usually what most people think of when they say the word "Pastor". Shepherds tend, care for, nurture their folks. They work more regularly alongside the prophetic (another word needing explanation from the above sources), the evangelistic (ditto), and the teachers (ditto). We often compress all those roles into "Pastor" or "leader" or "Minister" and well... some folks can do them all, for brief periods, some can do a few, but nobody does them all, all the time well. And the gift God makes you into changes over time, he's fun like that.

#14 Thanks

Thanks for all the thoughts you've written here. It's taken a bit of time to think through and write them. I appreciate it and find them good and useful to read.

#15 Ok, so you're saying that the

Ok, so you're saying that the apostle and the shepherd are both working within the same community. I had the impression that it was the shepherd pointing people towards another community led by the apostle. Thanks for the resources to dig deeper.

So do you think this can happen without being the official hierarchical leader or without support of those leaders? I'm thinking of the book "Tribes" and the style of leadership Seth Godin speaks of. Certainly not in some places, but is it possible anywhere?

#16 hierarchical leadership doesn't work

It really doesn't work to have hierarchical leadership. Especially in organizations where people have th choice to leave or stay. If we think in terms of staff leaders and appointed people running things than we are missing out not just on the leaders God appoints for us but the different types of leaders.

One of my favorite types of leaders is cheer leaders. I don't mean the kind at sporting events. I mean the kind that cheer people and stuff on in life and should in the church (as in all Gods people).

Ideally, the people who God called to lead and gave the gifts and talents to lead would bubble to the surface in a local church. This is rarely the case, in my experience. In some cases the real leaders are even pushed aside for the 'functional leaders' to do their thing.

But, you can't have a divided leadership either. A divided house is bad. So, the leadership should be on the same page in general.

I do like the book Tribes. As long as you read it as a secular book and understand that some things are different in the church and know enough to separate those out I think it's a great book to read. I wish more pastors would read it.

#17 Why I hate words

Ok, so yes and no.

My concept and use of the word community gets mangled when I reach back towards more traditional bodies of believers.

My normal intent now is "the larger family of God in a region (however big geographically or relationally it reaches as a family)".

So... yes and no. In the more conventional sense of "church" they would be two different "churches". But I see them as one larger community in a region, hopefully not just two partnered groups. A vast array of organically functioning groups that meet regularly and irregularly for edification and service, who live in each others homes and backyards, etc... the word for me is more of "the Kingdom present on earth, now".

Hierarchy beyond common priests with one high priest will always sew the seeds of eventual problems and failure. History is writ with it. How many missionary movements died as soon as they forced the missionaries to get a degree and become "experts" or "professionals" etc...

Again, I'd defer to Hirsch in Forgotten Ways or Neil in Organic Church Leadership stuff.

#18 Experts ok, sorta

I think experts are ok... sorta. Let me explain.

There is a difference between a shepherd, overseer, teacher, etc. While I don't like the idea of professionals I do like the idea of experts. Sometimes you they come from schools. Like, I do like expert teachers. The people who learn to read greek and hebrew, learn the context the original texts were written in, and can teach the rest of us about it. More often than not you go to a college to learn this (though I do know of one exception to this rule).

But, by getting this you aren't an expert leader and the rest of things. I would hope that these teachers are added to a community to help it grow. When we try to force a structure, put our system in place, or try take over positions of power and control it's moving away from a community.

When a local church tries to operate as an independent political unit (for lack of a better term) we have moved from being Gods people on a mission living in an area to something else.

What I find surprising was when I recently saw a video of a seminary professor. He spent several minutes trashing the current way Pastors do things and talking about something better. Something teachers and overseers should be doing. Gave me some hope. It was all biblically sound thoughts and the type of thing that had seemed to obvious to me for years.

I wonder what it would be like if church leaders, pastors, teachers, and overseers were not in the business of running an non-profit organization but instead in the role of being part of a community? I hope I get to see that in this world before I move on to the next one.

#19 /me nods

You're wrapping your head around it.

#20 Some Detail

Just to provide you with some detail, I'm not on staff at the church and hope I'm never on staff at a church. I'm a volunteer who has served in numerous ministries over the years. Currently, in the congregation Vice President. In any case, I tend to find myself leading things I'm involved with and working with others to bring about change.

What I find to be the hardest thing is to help the church staff who live and breath the culture that's there (they helped create it) to find something better. Some see it and secretly crave it. Others seem against it. There seems to be a hidden divide that is talked about in back rooms and private conversations. I think this mirrors the congregation as a whole as well.

I agree with what you're saying here. The question I'm struggling with is what is the next baby step to take.

#21 Details...

Well, the only folks who can answer that are God and your spiritual family. It's such a contextual question to your local expression of faith, personality, calling and vision.

Staff vs. volunteer isn't really too germane to the ideas and thoughts (outside of the pay thing... and I won't ever let a church pay me again, so you're on the better side from where I sit!). But honestly, the concerns you see aren't tweaks or changes of direction; they are foundational issues within the gathering of believers you take part in. Changing foundations is... very difficult, and rarely successful historically. God can do it, but people rarely comply with the process. Paul avoided trying to build on existing foundations for some of these reasons I think. The nature of the change you seem to desire would require a community-wide commitment to undoing everything. Down to the very foundation, and if that foundation seems brittle or like anything but Christ, then the level of work and pain becomes exponential.

So, unless God is clearly asking for that (and people respond positively to it), you have to ask if its profitable. It's often not. The goal is transformed lives, and vibrant kingdom life on earth, and sometimes that means acknowledging that some folks will not transition forward and need to make the best out of who they are. Again, you cannot drag folks into that unless they are willing and see the need. That's a conviction of spirit beyond individuals. That's the kind of conviction that causes congregations to spend their last Sunday on their knees in confession, forgiveness, and a celebration of God's story.

So, I can toss ideas out there for beneficial steps, and most of it will depend on your personality:
1. Pickup a book from an author about missional, incarnational community. Simple church, organic church, missional church, etc... And just ask God to speak to you.
2. Talk to the true elders in your community. Tell them your heart, and desire to not "takeover/change everything" but to see what wisdom they have about this. They might be itching to start a small group / homechurch, who knows who you might free beyond yourself in discussion. Wisdom is necessary here, some folks might here anything as "I'm going to split the church" so.. yeah.
3. Spend a lot of time listening to God for a response to "why are you showing this to me, Father?"
4. Don't allow your frustrations or expectations to become bitterness and rebellion.
5. Take your own break from community life for "x # of months". Sabbatical, whatever terms... and try to briefly be or be apart of the change you want to see.
6. Connect with local/regional church planter types who are wrestling with non-traditional communities. These could be great chances to talk in person and find folks to breathe new life and faith into your community.
7. Stop reading my lists!

I know the potential roads ahead can look daunting or unclear. This happens to my family with great regularity because we decided very early in life to just take crazy steps when we thought God was asking us to be the weirdos. We live with our son and three adults in one house, and generally scare the "normal" folks we meet. And the cost for us has been harrowing emotionally and spiritually at times. Our greatest wounds come from pastors and leaders who were also friends. God taught us a lot through that, and was able to be seen by others as we went through it.

#22 Staff vs. Volunteer Divide

One of the experiences I've felt (and I know others do) is the Staff vs. Volunteer divide. That Staff run the church and volunteers or others in the congregation are someone lower on the local church food chain. This isn't always the case and some people on church staffs aren't like this. But, I think they are exceptions to the rule. It's quite sad.

You do make a great point on making fundamental changes being hard. So many people are tied more to the system around them than the people, the God, or the mission in front of them. The system becomes more of what it's about than what God outlined. And, people fight to keep the system they like rather than chase after then mission and people God put in front of them It's sad and can easily become frustrating.

I do like your lists so I'm not going to strop reading them :P

#23 Staff

Well, I'm pretty biased from my own experience and readings of scripture at this point...

I think Staff vs. Volunteer is no different than clergy/laity. And I think both are false impositions of extra-biblical concepts onto the body of Christ. They aren't good in my view. Organic Church materials can bear out lots of good examples and thoughts on how to approach community with a less hierarchical leadership concept. We usually attribute hierarchy == structure/organization, but it's a false equivalence I think. Jesus washed feet, served, died. He inverted the hierarchy of the times and smashed it flat with his death. We are all priests with one, singular, high priest in Christ.

Our communities rarely reflect that, usually with a pragmatic argument (Tradition, or "people need to be led") or a very complicated theological justification of why we structure in (x) fashion.

But, I don't like paid staff from a fundamental point of view. Not with what those words mean, and the exact problems you yourself see with the problems the divide creates.

#24 Paid Staff Not Bad

I don't think paid staff are bad in and of themselves. I'll give two examples of non-church places to explain what I mean.

First, I used to be part of a community. The community raised money and some of that money went towards paying someone to organize things for the community. There was a lot of work with everything going on and it was more cost effective to have someone who could do it during the day. This was good to do.

Second, I think of my college experience with teachers doing their thing. I paid to go to college to get teaching from experts in the area. The teachers had office hours, prepared lessons, taught classes, and provided materials for us to learn.

I think there are times when these things can happen with volunteers in a community and times where they are paid positions. Both can be good and it depends on the situation.

But, notice these are specific elements in the community and a big reason behind them is the amount of time they can and do take at time. Neither of these is about leading the community, deciding the fate of the community, or being a professional Christian who works at a church.

The more I think about this the more I would like an expert teacher at my local church. Someone whose only job was to be a teacher, become good at conveying a message, teaching classes, holding office hours, and that kind of thing. How cool would that be?!?!

But, I think this problem starts with the expectations of a congregation. How many congregations want to have a staff that serves their Christian needs. That they have Christian needs (demand) and they are looking for an organization to provide (supply) for them. Ah, commercialism.

#25 A starting place

Someplace that might be helpful as a starting place, just came to mind:

http://exilio.forge.org.au/index.html

#26 I crave that

Background: Jason and I went to college together and worked together in IT.

I crave that type of community you talk about Jason. I crave the destruction of the WW2 military influence that Bob Christenson identified and learning how to be in a structure foreign to our culture that encourages community rather than task orientation. Indeed, the very structure of the typical church drives the consumer perspective.

Like Matt, I also am concerned about leaving the modern church behind. I agree that it is dying, but more as a plant than as a human body. The human body is dead or isn't. A tree can have whole segments that are a disaster, but cutting it back and removing the dead parts can mean a new life within the same trunk. While I very much respect what you are doing and am glad you are, I wonder if their is a place for other people to promote these concepts within the body in order to promote the pruning and removal of the dead parts. So I present the same question Matt presented, how do we keep from abandoning the entire church? Certainly some must step out entirely to show us the way, but can the rest follow without leaving everyone else?

I must add a full and hearty "let it die!" The church in this culture must learn to notice when things are almost dead and mercifully put those programs out of their misery. It will be critical to moving forward.

#27 Smaller Churches

I believe that the solution to the problem may be more simple than everyone thinks. Simply put, mega churches DO NOT INSPIRE INTIMACY. I was once speaking to an evangelist that was visiting a mega church that I was attending some years back, and he began to talk with me about this very subject. He was from Uganda, so his english was broken, but his metaphor was clear. He describe a pot that was full of boiling water. He said that the idea was not to try and contain the boiling water by creating a taller pot, but to allow the water to boil over into the community... He said a church should grow outward, not upward. In other words, a church should be building leadership to go into the community and plant smaller churches, rather than trying to build one gigantic church.

In a smaller church environment, several things happen that are so significantly different than a large church.

The first thing is accountability. When you are a member in a small church, you are not just a head in a sea of faces, but you are a person, an individual.. If you miss church, you will probably get at least one phone call, and it will likely be from the pastor himself. Not calling, because you didn't show up to roll call, but calling to make sure everything is okay.

The second thing is necessity. In a small church, everyone one is needed. We need you to help setup, we need you to witness, we need you to testify, we need you to participate. People feel that need. The truth is, there is nothing more rewarding than working for the Lord. That is how we grow as christians, that is how we improve our walk with God. It's spiritual exercise.

The third thing is a sense of family. When I go to church, I feel like I am going to a family event. I feel like the members, are like brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, nieces and nephews, sons and daughters. I know everyone that goes to my church. I know what struggles they have, I know what strengths they have. I know what level to reach people at as individuals. And that is how I believe the Lord wants us to reach one another, as family, not as strangers at a party.

So many americans believe in God, but do not understand that we are here to serve, not to be served. Sitting in a mega church is more like a concert than a community. Many people can look through the forest of people at their church, and not see anyone that they know... just waiting to see a friend, when their brothers and sisters stand right in front of them, waiting to be entertained.

Unfortunately, we have a dominant culture of christians that do not understand that they are the church. Most people go into a small church, see the need, and turn right around and head straight to the closest mega church. They don't want to be bothered with the notion that they might have to work on their day off. They don't want the pastor calling them when they miss, because they don't want any accountability. They don't want other members knowing any details about their personal life. They don't like the idea of joining a family with all of its disfunction. They don't want to hear hard lessons. They believe in God, they just don't want to serve. They don't really want a community.

I know that this is hard for people to hear when they are part of a large congregation. Because the truth is that even in a large church, a mega church even, people still are able to participate and begin to feel the accountability, learn to serve, even feel that the church is family. The problem is that they tend to be the ones who are considered staff in one way or another.... And if you are one of those people, next time you are in church, look out at all the people in the audience, and ask yourself... "do I know all these people? Are all these people getting the same thing I am getting out of this?" ask, "Will they ever get what I am getting out of this if they stay here?"

The truth is that those people need more than to watch a church. They need to become the church.

Support small churches, they need you, and it will change your life!

#28 A different problem

A few questions come to mind about this.

  • What's the difference between a small group and a small church when it comes to intimacy, accountability, and connection?
  • Wasn't there a large church at the very start of the church where the apostles were?
  • Isn't a lot of the serving in small churches people doing stuff at the church for the congregation? Like setting up chairs, taking care of the building, etc?

I am part of a mid sized church. It suffers some of the large church problems you talk about. But, I've looked into small churches and they seem to suffer a different set of problems. I'm not seeing how supporting small churches is going to get more people involved in the mission of the church. I know quite a few small churches that are there for members on Sunday morning, they have the occasional bake sale, and the members who do things do stuff at the church for the congregation. If they were actively serving and outreaching would so many small churches be dying? I see them with a different set of issues based around the same basic problems.

We as a culture are becoming more self centered, more into our own space, much more into our own entertainment, and more entitled. Whether we have a small church or large church we have these issues and they manifest differently. The question is, how do we tackle them within our congregations?

#29 Some thoughts and resources

One of the things I've noticed in that anybody who thinks they can create community, is a fool. You can create a culture that allows for and even encourages community, but you can't force community. So at that end, I'd say we need to start from a point where we say, "How can we create a culture that supports the formation of community.

With that in mind, perhaps the best stuff I've read on the subject of community is Joe Myers, "The Search to Belong" and "Organic Community". I really dig his stuff about proxemics and relational spaces. As a quick overview, he suggests that we all need an abundance of public connections (attend a church, cheer for a team, live in a town, share a hobby, etc.), a fewer but still significant number of social connections (a space we get to know a bit more about people and decided who we want to get to know even better), a few personal connections (where we reveal more about ourselves, including some of the ugly), and finally maybe one private space where we're "naked and not ashamed" (I tend to see this only being fulfilled by God, although for some a spouse could be here as well).

Now, worship services are public spaces, and with most small groups, the aim seems to be cramming people into personal space without them going through the discernment of social space. I'd say (and this has been discussed in posts above) that churches need to focus on social space with programming, and allow personal space to evolve naturally. In addition, private space before God can be a focal point of teaching in the public space of worship.

Thoughts?

#30 Encouragement

I think you bring out an important point. That creating a place that encourages community is important.

Take a pastor who comes in to his office every day. Prepares his sermon and delivers it well. He plans the administrative stuff well. Makes all his appointments. Does weddings and counseling. In many ways he does things well.

But, when he walks past people he doesn't say hi. He doesn't take the time to thank people for what they do around the church community. He only really connects with the congregation a few minutes before and after a service. This is a pastor not encouraging community. He's doing his tasks but to encourage community is a different thing. I'd go so far as to say he's discouraging community by not a constructive member of it.

I, also, think there needs to be more public space, as you call it, besides the church services in the morning. A time and place where members of the congregation can grow relationships rather than race in and out of the service.

#31 Public vs. Social

Your comment at the end indicates social vs. public space. Public space is the community you feel when high-fiving the guy at the football game. However, social space is where you start to develop relationships and figure out who you'd want to move into personal space with.

However, beyond words, when we look at definitions, I think you're dead on. Creating spaces where people can begin to connect and naturally form that "personal space" community is huge ... and most of the time, churches try and skip that stage and move people from public space (typically worship) to personal (small groups) ... which might explain why most small groups aren't all that enjoyable or effective.